\n<\/p>\n
To this end, he raised the examples of ASEAN \u201cdiligently working\u201d to cooperate on the economy, infrastructure and the digital economy.<\/p>\n
\u201cBut at the same time, ASEAN countries have some very difficult problems to resolve. \u00a0Some of them \u2013 Myanmar internally, Thailand and Cambodia with an armed conflict \u2013 not really fully resolved,\u201d said Mr Lee.<\/p>\n
\u201cASEAN has to try and resolve them with some difficulty.\u201d<\/p>\n
During the dialogue, Mr Lee was asked by Prof Chan whether the US\u2019 and China\u2019s involvement in resolving the conflict between Thailand and Cambodia sets a future trend of conflict settlement within the bloc.<\/p>\n
Mr Lee said in response that while ASEAN can influence its members, it does not have \u201cabsolute influence\u201d.<\/p>\n
\u201cASEAN is not a supranational body with executive powers. It doesn’t direct its members. It cannot override its members. It works by ASEAN consensus. It’s a famous principle, we pride ourselves on it. It’s the reason we are able to get along together,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
The 11 member countries all have different policies, priorities, histories and security concerns, so it is not possible for them to operate like one country, he said.<\/p>\n
The greatest power and influence actually goes to those who trade with the bloc the most, said Mr Lee. Intra-ASEAN trade among the bloc\u2019s members constitutes only about 20 per cent of their international trade, he noted.<\/p>\n
\u201cOur biggest trading partners are with the developed economies, America foremost amongst them, and in our region, with China. And that is where influence can come,\u201d said Mr Lee.<\/p>\n
\u201cApart from the economy, there’s also many other ways in which the major powers can exercise influence on ASEAN members, so it’s not surprising that the major powers are able to nudge, encourage, advise, even coerce other countries to do something which they would like to do, to some extent.\u201d<\/p>\n
However, even those major powers may not necessarily be able to solve all problems. For instance, the Thai-Cambodian issue goes back historically hundreds of years, and are not “issues which will go away\u201d, said Mr Lee.<\/p>\n
\u201cBut it’s a reality that foreign, external powers have influence over ASEAN countries and ASEAN has to work together despite that, and in many areas we’re still able to do good. It is a valuable organisation to all of us,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
Another issue in the region which Mr Lee said will likely remain is the Myanmar situation, where elections are ongoing amid a humanitarian crisis.<\/p>\n
\u201cWe hope that they will be able to find their way forward and work out the solution which will lead to a government which should work,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
Mr Lee also clarified what the guiding principle of ASEAN centrality means in response to a question about the bloc’s role.<\/p>\n
\u201cI think centrality has become a term of art. What it means is that we convene a meeting, people come, and it’s quite useful that we can convene a meeting because they come and meet each other and discuss it with us,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
\u201cDoesn’t mean that we are centrally directing matters, even amongst ourselves, much less than the rest of the world. You must not mistake a word for reality.\u201d<\/p>\n
Looking back at the \u201cblack swan\u201d events he faced during his time as Prime Minister from August 2004 to May 2024, Mr Lee said that the 2008 global financial crisis and the COVID-19 pandemic were the two that came to mind.<\/p>\n
\u201cIn both cases, it came quite suddenly. The impact on us was very great, and we had to prepare the population for the impact psychologically, as well as do things which were within our power to secure ourselves and secure our people’s livelihoods and lives,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
\u201cFortunately, with resources and with support from the people and unity, we were able to come up in both cases much less scarred than we feared.\u201d<\/p>\n
When asked by a member of the audience, former Malaysian Deputy Minister for International Trade and Industry Ong Kian Ming, if Dr Mahathir Mohamad\u2019s return as Malaysian prime minister for a second time was also a \u201cblack swan\u201d event, Mr Lee said that \u201cwe didn’t expect what happened in 2018\u201d.<\/p>\n
\u201cSome cooperation projects were reconsidered, some continued, some didn’t. Some new projects which we had hoped to work on, they may not have taken off yet,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n
\u201cBut external policy always depends on domestic politics. If your domestic politics doesn’t support it or doesn’t give you the bandwidth to make major external decisions, well that’s just the way it is, and we have to wait until the politics enables things to restart.\u201d<\/p>\n
Mr Ong also asked Mr Lee about how the Singapore government responded during the period from 2018 to 2022 \u2013 when Malaysia saw four different prime ministers in office \u2013 and whether that experience left Singapore prepared for a Malaysian prime minister from the Parti Islam Se-Malaysia.<\/p>\n
“I think whoever forms the government in Malaysia, we have to work with them, just as whoever forms the government in Singapore, you have to work with us,” said Mr Lee, adding that both sides have very different systems.<\/p>\n
Singapore is multiracial and operates on the basis of equal opportunity and meritocracy, while Malaysia has a race-based political system and policies, he said.<\/p>\n
“It’s the fundamental difference between our two countries and I think, therefore, the relationship is complex, but we have found ways to coexist and to cooperate despite that, and I’m quite confident we will keep on doing that,” said Mr Lee.<\/p>\n
Asked by Prof Chan if he had fun in his time as Singapore prime minister, Mr Lee laughed and said that he did not think \u201cit\u2019s quite the right mindset with which to approach a job\u201d.<\/p>\n
\u201cBut it’s a challenge, and it’s one which you look forward to. There is a problem, and we can do something about it, let’s move. I think there’s a good feeling,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n